So I've been a little bit out of the loop on the whole Wisconsin state teachers' union showdown.
Now that I'm up to speed: WTF?!
So Democrats are now literally running away from the state's budget problems. That's good. Well done. Just run away, like a 10 year old boy who is mad at his mommy.
Nice leadership, Democrats.
I hope Scott Walker and the state troopers round 'em all up, and drag their asses back to the state house kicking and screaming.
In reading about some of this, I came across this classic clip or Ronald Reagan telling Air Traffic Controllers to get their asses back to work, or they will be TERMINATED!
Man, just watching it, gives me conservative wood. Ronaldus Maximus did the entire country a favor when he did this, clipping a union that had clearly gotten out of control. I love how he pointed out that unions which strike in a private sector company, is fine. It's that public sector unions, still have to provide the public the services which we as taxpayers all pay for.
Screw these teachers in Wisconsin, and let it be known that other states are correct to be coming after other public sector pensions and benefits. They are totally out of control, and unsustainable. I know, it sucks to take a pay cut Ms. Shiny Apple Teacher.
But the state is broke. There is no other option. And besides, the electorate spoke last November.
Elections have consequences. Welcome to the real world.
Steve, you're a hypocrite if you support the governor but not the NFL owners.
ReplyDeleteDo you know why they are broke. Down 140 million. Because the Governor gave 140 million in tax breaks to wealthy Rep. fat cats. I hate politic talk and absolutely love your show. I'm in Cali and have to podcast. Hope to see you in Vegas.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, Coop has it right - almost. Walker's corporate tax cuts caused all but $20 million of the deficit. And the problem isn't the pay cuts - it's the fact that he is stripping working class citizens of their rights to collectively bargain, without going to the wealthy for ANY contribution. Why is it morally wrong to tax the rich, but entirely noble to take away from the income of the working class? Remember - these people make on average $25,000/year.
ReplyDeleteStephen and Coop: you are brain dead imbeciles, you have no fucking clue of what you speak, which, btw, in large part, explains why you are democrats.
ReplyDeleteEnd of comment.
Bill you're a moron. If you'd get your information from someplace else besides Fox News you'd know the truth. Wisconsin was actually on pace to have a surplus of around $57 million for the end of this fiscal year. But Walker decided to use that for political gain and spent it on lowering taxes on the top 10% and lowering the corporate tax rate and is going to pay for it with the middle class. Fucking idiot.
ReplyDeletehttp://legis.wisconsin.gov/lfb/Misc/2011_01_31Vos&Darling.pdf
First two posters and first two liberal talking points down first coop hell yes he gave them 140 million break this is after diamond Jim Doyle passed his midnight 1 billion dollar tax hike. Wouldn't it just be great if we could all work for the state except the state makes no money thats what the private sector does. Corporations provide jobs sometime you give them incentives to create jobs in your state.
ReplyDeleteStephen 25,000/year yea right double that and your right then you can add another 30,000 in bounces. They pay now .2% in retirement this bill would make it 5% below the national average their caddilac health care package they pay 6% asking for 12% below the national average.
They will say we will pay the money, but nobody asked us he just forced it on us. BS this is the same union that would not pay for their own viagra and is in court right now over it. This is the union that has not collectivly bargained a contract in less than 15 months for the last three contracts. Sorry we are broke we need you to do your fair share NOW.
I hate to pop your little liberal bubble guys, but "how to fix the state's budget shortfall" was the main topic of the political debates BEFORE the election. The only reason we are in as good of shape as we are is because Doyle jacked our taxes and user fees through the roof.
ReplyDeleteMaybe you guys should get your information from some place other than the unions websites, and YOU would know the truth.
To the first poster, you obviously didn't read this part of Czabe's commentary:
ReplyDelete"I love how he pointed out that unions which strike in a private sector company, is fine. It's that public sector unions, still have to provide the public the services which we as taxpayers all pay for."
Last time I checked, the NFL was a private company.
As for the rest of you, quit taking your talking points from Rachel Maddow. Her clames about the finances in the State of Wisconsin were pulled out of her ass.
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/116507863.html
The answer to the state's budget problem is increased tax on the highest 1%. Trickle down economics was a good theory but were proven to not work over the past 30 or so years. If Wisconsin wants to pay state employees less they have the right to collectively bargain when their contract comes up. Sometimes I think that neoconservatism was created by The Sheriff of Nottingham "rob from the poor to feed the rich."
ReplyDeleteAs a Wisconsin resident in the Milwaukee region, the comments contain a lot of incorrect information. First, while tax credits were passed in the previous weeks, Wisconsin was not on track for any budget surplus and has not had a budget surplus in over 6 years minimum. A budget repair bill was required for each 2 year budget going back the last 3, hence the last 6 years (3 budgets x 2 year/budget). Budget repairs bills mean the budget is in deficit and needs to be fixed. Some of the credits passed recently will add to the current budget deficit, but the majority of the cost of those credits will hit in the upcoming 2 year budget to be presented in the upcoming weeks that has to make up a structural deficit of $3.0 billion thanks to the "Enron" accounting employed by governors going way back.
ReplyDeleteSecond, the base corporate tax rate remains unchanged at 7.9%. The recent increase is corporate state taxes was due to combined reporting, which changed what income is considered taxable. Individual tax rates remain unchanged as of today from the previous Dem governor, so Joe is lying his ass off. These are the facts, look it up at the tax foundation, Wisconsin Dept of Revenue, and Legislative history.
Third, state teachers, who are the majority of the Wisconsin residents protesting in Madison earn on average $89,000 in wages AND benefits to be specific. In the Milwaukee school system, the average is around $100,000 in wages and benefits.
Lastly, truth is Wisconsin is broke, near bankrupt. We have lost lots of manufacturing jobs as companies consolidate operations in other states (like Thomas Products) or chased out of the state (like Menards new distribution center). We recently instituted a new 7.75% bracket on those making $225,000 as part of the previous budget repair bill and are still in deficit, so much for Sean Taylor's genius. It seems that New York State has done the same thing, and they are on the verge of bankruptcy with a incredible budget deficit too. We either get a grip on state and local employee compensation, or we just skip to the end game and declare bankruptcy.
Czabe you are a piece of shit. The unions in wisconsin have made concessions up the ass to save their jobs and help the budget. Why was it ok when the economy was good, the private sector was cleaning up, good benies, bonuses, stock options you name it. Now that the country is fucked, lets go after the middle class. I am a fireman, I dont make a lot of money a year, but yes, I have a job. Thank Obama for everyone losing theirs. Why dont they go after the real money blackhole, the "poor" blacks in the state. You want to trim a ton of fat, get rid of all of the bleeding heart social programs!!!!!!!!!
ReplyDeleteJoe, read your OWN link: $58.7 million owed to the state of MN and that pesky $200 million Doyle illegally transferred out of the Injured Patients and Families Compensation Fund. Heaven forbid a person, much less a state, want to pay off its dept.
ReplyDeleteSome unions have made concessions. The govt unions have thumbed their noses EVERY TIME. Time for them to reality check.
ReplyDeleteAdd Joe to the list of truly clueless ignorant buffoons. You couldn't tote my sweaty jockstrap when it comes to understanding the budget situation in WI. There is a $3.6 billion budget shortfall left by the (two bit corrupt maggot) previous (D) governor. So do yourself a solid and just shut the ever loving hell up before you make more of an ass of yourself.
ReplyDeleteHow bout them Packers...:)
I would give my left nut to make $100,000/year for nine months of work. and the best thing would be...they can't fire me.
ReplyDeletei think the biggest reason people are up in arms about this is: we have heard for years about the plight of poor teachers and their low wages. wtf???? people can't believe they are bitching about making so much money and paying virtually nothing to receive cadillac (or lexus if quality actually counts) benefits. if it's so bad, asshats, quit! I'll gladly take your fuckin job. sure beats crawling around on my hands and knees painting baseboards while mucking through dog shit, dog hair and dog piss for a lot less than your unbelievable wage! FUCKERS! oh yeah, i may be a lowly painter, but i have the same 4 year degree that you have, and real world experience to boot! so suck on that, you big crybabies! WOOOOOOOOOO!
czabe...for the 7,987th time:
ReplyDeletejust.
fucking.
move there.
Bill you claim that my facts are wrong, but offer none of your own to prove it. Walker is just trying to move along the republican effort to screw the middle class while helping the rich get richer. The unions said they would accept the financial aspects of the budget if Walker would eliminate the collective bargaining restrictions. He won't budge. He's not trying to hide it - he wants the unions busted, because he, as a far right conservative, wants to see the end of democracy. He is helping to facilitate the corporate oligarchy.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to know how the libs think that the guv is helping the rich get richer. the fact is that when you give tax breaks to corporations, they use that money to make improvements, hire new labor, etc. Why do the dems think that the tax breaks go right into the CEO's pocket? It's just ignorance.
ReplyDeleteThe public teat has gone dry, democrats. Quit sucking on it.
ReplyDeleteOh, and czabe's right about the government unions. In the private sector, unions and corporations work together on collective bargaining to make deals that make sense. When unions get out of control with their demands, and they cost the company too much, the company goes out of business, or they move jobs to other states or countries so they can compete. If the unions are reasonable, both sides win. In the public sector, you don't have the checks and balances of their employers moving or going out of business; the state goverment will always be there. Now, they can lay off union employees to keep costs down, or they can do what they always do - raise taxes. Why should these employees not have to compete in the market like the rest of us? Collective bargaining for govt employees does not work. they don't need that priviledge and shouldn't have it. If they don't like it, go work in the private sector like the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteCollective bargaining cannot be allowed when the union essentially sits on both sides of the negotiating table. What Scott Walker is doing is actually reforming a process that has become corrupt because lawmakers are in the back pocket of the unions. As long as the current bargaining continues taxpayers will have no voice and lavish benefits will continue to strangle budgets. If you are a teacher and don't like it you have the freedom to quit and join us in the real world. 80% of you jack-wagons are in it for your summers off anyhow so my guess is you won't.
ReplyDeleteTo your point Czabe, the electorate has not spoken towards Republicans. Liberals might dismiss the Tea Party but they shouldn't. The Tea Party represents an anti-government sentiment among the working poor that reflects our countries poor state. The people simply voted Republican because the economy has not shown enough improvement under Democratic leadership and because Democrats have done a horrible job of providing a strong unified message to the country (Ronald Reagen). Both parties right now are out of touch.
ReplyDeleteUhh, Stephen, I slightly broke my rule of arguing with blithering idiots here, and you are certainly one. Pissing directly into a gale force wind is a much, much better use of one's precious time than arguing with a clueless moron.
ReplyDeleteSo just smoke some more dope, read the Daily Kos, and blow your boyfriend you idiot.
And btw, keep it up and you'll be saying President Walker before 2020 dipshit...
ephen, so you just randomly pull answers out of your ()#$)#( Public union employees in Wisconsin get paid extravagently. Milwaukee pulic school teachers average over 100K a year in wages and benefits, and can retire at 55 with lavish pensions and paid health insurance. My son's teachers ALL make over 80K a year in wages, plus another 50K in bennies. The unions will toss in part time coaches, substitute teachers, part time lunch ladies etc into their averages, to bring them down to middle class wages, but there are 10s of thousands of public workers in wisconsin getting rich on our tax dollars.
ReplyDeleteIt's great that the Wisconsin governor won at the ballot box based on him holding the very position the spoiled brat teachers are protesting. Apparently, democrats don't understand the relationship between MAKING campaign promises and KEEPING them.
ReplyDeleteIt's just like the Seinfeld episode where the rent-a-car company doesn't have Jerry's car reservation, and he tells the female clerk that anyone can TAKE a reservation, but you actually have to HOLD one.
I have the state's benefit package, it is sweet. In april if all of this passes my premiums are going to more than DOUBLE for my family insurance plan. Which will bring my total payments for health insurnace up to $108 a month. I don't have co-payments, and this package include some pretty nice dental coverage. So oh-no we cant collectively bargain anymore, who cares, we already have way more than the private sector has. We are not more deserving than private sector just because we work for the state. If an individual wants to be liberal that is their decision, it doesn't mean you should be able to force that view on everyone else
ReplyDeleteSteve, I'm a conservative Governor Walker supporter that is a HUGE fan of you and your "common sense" look at the world. It absolutely tears me up how misguided and uninformed your blog post is. You ARE right about the benefit packages being unsustainable and out of control. Governor Walker proposed financial cuts in his bill to help right the budget, and the teachers accepted EVERY DOLLAR of his cuts to pay their fair share as long as he left collective bargaining alone. His response: "no". What you and MANY people don't understand is that both the Republicans AND Democrats are on the same page about the financial cuts... they BOTH support the cuts! The argument now is about collective bargaining rights. If you're anti collective bargaining, THAT would be a logical blog post. Get your story straight: we're all on the same page (here in Wisconsin) about the financial cuts. As far as the teachers being absent; skipping out of work is wrong, but you make it sound like they are ALL doing it. The VAST majority of teachers are showing up to work as usual.
ReplyDeleteThis might make a good blog post for you too; "Charles Woodson says he backs organized Labor": http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/116562168.html
ReplyDeleteAaron Rodgers is another Packers union rep; how long until he comes out in support of the teachers too?
Bill, once again, you prove my point by failing to make one. You just keep calling me an idiot - you have yet to offer any facts or logical arguments. You are clearly the average conservative. Just yell insults louder than me and you can't hear me right? Oh, and I'm not an idiot - 32 ACT score, 3.8 GPA in my third year of college in a good accounting program (a program that will certainly decline when all the good professors leave). At least I'll have an education, unlike our dipshit governor.
ReplyDeleteC - Yes, some public employees are paid handsomely, and they SHOULD be. Teachers provide a very valuable service we all benefit from. There are many public employees who aren't teachers who cannot afford these cuts. Public employees are not 'getting rich' - trust me, my mother is one of them. One thing to remember, public employees pay taxes too.
Oh and yes C, they do use ALL employees in their averages, that's what an average is! Just using the well paid teachers would be misleading. Also, this isn't just about teachers, its all state employees you jackwagon.
ReplyDeleteI hate the I pay taxes too argument. Your salary comes from taxes. The private sector provides those funds that you get "taxed" on. You do provide a service I am not tring to diminsh your job, but really your taxes are not equal to my taxes.
ReplyDeleteThe state of wisconsin needs to take a look at the real problem. It is all of the bleeding heart liberal programs for the useless niggers. Medacade, or title 19 insurance, food stamps, free cell phones, heating assistance, free cable, social security for being "disabled". Why are people crying so much about state employees and what they pay for insurance, when niggers don't pay a dime, have way better coverage and abuse the hell out of it? Cut them off completely and you will see all of the budget whoas disappear.
ReplyDeleteRyan,
ReplyDeleteThe reason he can not accept just the cuts, is that he is going to have to cut support for cities and school districts, and they are going to need the same tools to rein in their out of control spending.
Spephen.
When you use a $1000 part time volleyball coach in your average, and a 5 hour a week clerical person, it isn't an average...it is fantasy. And while I agree teachers are important, (heck my son is studying to be one.) Public school teachers and public employees in this state make FAR more than their private counterparts. There are 1000 applicants for many teachers positions, and private school teachers make half of what the public schools pay. Heck we pay six figures at our tech schools for part time teachers who teach nail tech and hair cutting.
Public employees in wisconsin make premium wages and expensive benefits.
But in the end, these cuts will barely touch the employees, but they will destroy the corrupt unions.
For example. If you make 50,000 a year. The changes will mean that you pay maybe 1000 a year more in health insurance, and have to contibute 2,800 to your pension. However you offset this with the tax treatment of that pension (about $1000) and not paying union dues of 1,000 and you are gettign close to break even. And once the state does not have to buy the insurance from a front company for the union, that takes thousands of dollars to fund the unions, and your insurance premiums will drop dramatically.
State employees may even be better off, as they are trying to eliminate the 5% of their pay they lost with forced unpaid days. After that is taken into account, a $50,000 a year person will be break even under this bill, while the unions will take a 5,000 hit per employee. A win win for EVERYONE.
If these were private employees, everyone calling in sick to protest in madison would be on the unemployment line where they belong. We have high unemployment, and there are lots of people who would LOVE to have these jobs.
Jack - I didn't mean for that to be my whole argument against this bill. I just hate for things to become a "taxpayers vs. public workers" fight, as public employees do in fact pay taxes as well. I do however think that the taxes paid by public sector employees are the same as the ones you pay, at least to those wage earners they are.
ReplyDeleteC - Like I said, the financial aspects of the bill are not what concern me most - I think that unions have a role in our country and I don't want to see them eliminated. Workers in general need a way to work together to protect their rights. I believe that our government can balance the budget without killing the unions. This comes down to what, $25/per citizen? Could we get some tax revenue from the 2/3 of corporations in the state which pay no tax at all? Attacking one group of Wisconsinites isn't the answer.
To both of you - While I disagree with you, I'd like to sincerely thank you for at least being mature and respectful (unlike our friend Bill). The world needs more people willing to actually discuss problems instead of just blurting out immature insults.
Bigrut - If you have a problem with social programs, fine. But don't make it a racial thing. The world would be better without people like you.
HERE! HERE! CZABE!! Spot on, bro!! How much we pay or don't pay in taxes has nothing to do with unions being a buncha greedy pigs at the trough. I know teachers have an important job, but that doesn't mean they can't chip in for their own benefits a little bit like the rest of us.
ReplyDeleteStephen,
ReplyDelete'Killing the unions' isn't what Walker is trying to do. Clearly, he is not going after all unions here. He may be trying to kill the public sector unions, which his electorate agrees with, as they are useless and counterproductive. Private sector unions, on the other hand, have been killing themselves for years. They've priced their labor out of the market, which forces corporations to go out of business, or to move to a non-union place so they can compete. this is why private-sector unions account for 14% of the workforce. Trust me, if the other 86% of workers felt downtrodden and abused by their employers, they would unionize. Unions have outlived their place in America - they did a lot for us years ago, but now we have many government agencies and regulations that do what unions were created to do.
My God, I couldn't have made a beter choice to bail on the Hannity/Beck/Rush wannabe "sports" "celebrity" -- who couldn't even beat out Stephen A. Smith -- once he started down the predicatable "I hate you libs" rants on his website. The hatred that fulminates from the host down to the listeners is truly appalling. Who on earth would actually choose to listen to that show?
ReplyDeleteaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand still you take the time to post on his website. czabe is the man, deal with it
ReplyDelete@Michael Scott
ReplyDeleteThen don't dipshit:)
@Michael Scott - Don't worry about it man. Czaban jumped the Shark a few years ago. It's fairly common for sports guys to become jaded and bitter. I noticed this a while ago listening to Chicago sports radio. Czaban was pretty cool at one time, now he IS one of those bitter Sports guys. His show on Bob and Brian consists of annoying Golf talk, uninformed political rants, the tired "Jimmy Master Lock" segment, stories about his basement.... it's gotten really old. I haven't listened for quite a while. By chance I was curious what this clown had to say about Wisconsin. I have to say he didn't disappoint. Typical Bullshit, he is blind.
ReplyDeleteBy the way Coops numbers were correct.
ReplyDelete@C - yes many people would love to have teachers jobs. Except one thing you need a Fucking degree and a teaching certificate and the right personality to teach kids. Half you clowns wouldn't last one fucking day teaching in the inner city. Cheers!!!
Last time I come to this site.
ps - what happened to this site? It looks like crap.
You guys have your heads in the sand if you can't at least realize that when an entity is out of money, it's out of money.
ReplyDeleteCOOPS numbers are correct? Really? Owing a bunch of money to MN isn't part of the cause. The tax cuts are the cause? Ok. Maybe need to read the fiscal budget numbers again, but it seems there is much more to this.
ReplyDeleteThe unions can still exist. Just can't bargain for benefits. When Walker cuts funding to the municipalities and school districts they will need the leverage to balance their budgets. Without that provision, the local govts. would be in a tough spot. They would have to slash services and jobs. Tax cuts were to attempt to attract business to WI and create jobs. Doyles increases and practice of taxing out of state corporate income chased business from WI. Lowering costs at local levels will lower property taxes too. Love the idea of making the senators pick up their checks at the capitol.
ReplyDeleteTEST
ReplyDeleteI'm a teacher in WI and I have read all of your thoughts (apparently spelling was not part of everyone's curriculum). I have been teaching for 10 years in the same district, I have a master's and I make just under $45,000/year. I'm not quite sure where the $89K average comes from. It is true that I have "Lexus" benefits, but these are benefits that I/we pay for by agreeing to lower compensation (salary). I, like most teachers, have little issue with having to pay more for my benefits and my retirement. I know we need to fix our state budget b/c we're broke, but what does that have to do with collective bargaining?
ReplyDeleteI have been told that I am a glorified babysitter. I send my child to daycare and pay $30/day or $3.75/hr. Perhaps parents should just pay me for watching their kids all day. I have roughly 23 students in my classroom (7th grade science/math). 23 kids times 8 hours = 184. 184 times $3.00 per hour = $552 per day. $552 times 5 days = $2760 per week times 4 weeks = $11040 per month times 9 months = $99,360. Sounds good to me, and I'll even teach them something useful.
Bottom line, I'm all for a budget fix, etc. But why is it the middle class that is taking the brunt of it all. I'm just not a fan of Gov Walker's tactics.
And I'm done. Feel free to pile on...
Sorry, but I don't believe anything Walker says on this issue above and beyond "We're broke." If the deficit was the only concern, why cut corporate taxes now? Oh yeah, they propped up your campaign. If it was all public employee benefits, why exempt policemen and firefighter unions? Oh yeah, they propped up your campaign.
ReplyDeleteHere is why he's REALLY going after these public employee unions: they are the largest contributors to the Democratic Party. If you can weaken them to the point of decertification, you'll weaken the advertising power of the democrats. Combine this with the supreme court ruling that corporations can legally donate and you'll see nothing but republican adds out there.
Steve-Stick to sports.
ReplyDeleteAnd you don't have a problem with public unions contributing to campaigns? The circle of money is corrupt! Democrats give money to public workers, they give it (or more accurately have it stolen) to unions, then unions give it to democrats. And the union members have no choice. A family member of mine can't wait for this to pass so she won't have to pay union dues anymore and support candidates against her will. Public unions NEED to be weakened in order to allow the power to go back to the people. To Cara...the larger numbers are total compensation numbers. And, the elephant in the room nobody is talking about is the underfunded pensions and need to raise the retirement age substantially.
ReplyDeleteWhy cut corporate taxes? Do I really need to explain? How many more employers do you want to chase from WI? Chase more jobs away and then see what cuts need to be made. We can't tax the rich out of this one....see NY, Michigan, and Virginia. Their higher rates have resulted in lower revenue. Why? People change behavior or simply move out of state.
Cara,
ReplyDeleteAt that wage, you are underpaid, although when you add in your benefits, versus the private sector, probably not nearly as much as you might think. However, the biggest savings to be had, require the elimination of public unions. Besides the $1000 or so you pay in union dues, WEAC makes a HUGE profit (about $300Million) by requiring that school districts buy their insurance from WEAC. The graft and corruption in the unions and their political contributions add a ton to the average compensation for a teacher. Without those kind of handcuffs, most school disticts will be able to absorb cuts in state aid with little impact to your income. Your union bosses are not concerned about you, but rather their gravy train. I've sat in rooms where simple ways to save concrete costs were shot down repeatedly, and the result is always that great young teachers lose their jobs....